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	<title>Comments on: Seeing God in New Ways: Recovery from Distorted Images of God</title>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-7606</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Gods character is varied. It includes anger and wrath and it includes eternal punishment for those outside of His Kingdom. But we who belong to HIm need have no fear of punishment or judgement of sins. We stand as those who have never sinned because of Christ not because of us. I have struggled for two years now with a husband who truly does desire to serve and obey God but who takes this to a degree when &#039;dealing&#039; with my sins that has caused me to doubt my salvation, doubt whether God would indeed save such a person as I, doubt whether God is being kind or is in truth playing cruel tricks on us all. This is far from healthy and i thank God He has so far kept me from allowing these thoughts to become the fullness of my relationship with Him. God is not angry towards His children. He lovingly disciplines us, but this is for our good just as parents discipline children for their good. He does not punish us. He punished Christ in our place. We who belong to Him no longer come to Him with a spirit of bondage or fear but we appraoch Him as Abba Father, boldy we approach the throne of God. His sceptre is always stretched out to us now because of Christ. And even towards those outside of His kingdom here and now He is patient and long suffereing not willing that any should perish. We are sinful fallen human beings and cannot begin to know the mind of God so far as eternal hell and heaven are concerned. We are commanded to trust in God and lean not on our own understanding and in this there is great peace and rest. But we do have to be ver cautious not to be led into any extremes for this is satans ploy. I have felt like a pendulum at times, swinging from one extreme to another, God being scary and cruel to God not caring about what we do in life. But the truth is those who love Him will have the desire to obey Him, and will be afforded the grace to do so in a measure given to them. But perfection is not attainable and we ought not to be demanding or expecting from ourselves or others a level of holiness that God has not given us the grace to achieve. He is far more merciful and patient and gracious towards us than we are towards one another. And these character traits He displays we are called to demonstrate to each other out of love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gods character is varied. It includes anger and wrath and it includes eternal punishment for those outside of His Kingdom. But we who belong to HIm need have no fear of punishment or judgement of sins. We stand as those who have never sinned because of Christ not because of us. I have struggled for two years now with a husband who truly does desire to serve and obey God but who takes this to a degree when &#8216;dealing&#8217; with my sins that has caused me to doubt my salvation, doubt whether God would indeed save such a person as I, doubt whether God is being kind or is in truth playing cruel tricks on us all. This is far from healthy and i thank God He has so far kept me from allowing these thoughts to become the fullness of my relationship with Him. God is not angry towards His children. He lovingly disciplines us, but this is for our good just as parents discipline children for their good. He does not punish us. He punished Christ in our place. We who belong to Him no longer come to Him with a spirit of bondage or fear but we appraoch Him as Abba Father, boldy we approach the throne of God. His sceptre is always stretched out to us now because of Christ. And even towards those outside of His kingdom here and now He is patient and long suffereing not willing that any should perish. We are sinful fallen human beings and cannot begin to know the mind of God so far as eternal hell and heaven are concerned. We are commanded to trust in God and lean not on our own understanding and in this there is great peace and rest. But we do have to be ver cautious not to be led into any extremes for this is satans ploy. I have felt like a pendulum at times, swinging from one extreme to another, God being scary and cruel to God not caring about what we do in life. But the truth is those who love Him will have the desire to obey Him, and will be afforded the grace to do so in a measure given to them. But perfection is not attainable and we ought not to be demanding or expecting from ourselves or others a level of holiness that God has not given us the grace to achieve. He is far more merciful and patient and gracious towards us than we are towards one another. And these character traits He displays we are called to demonstrate to each other out of love.</p>
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		<title>By: Ministering to Abusive Families &#124; Fuller Youth Institute</title>
		<link>http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-6739</link>
		<dc:creator>Ministering to Abusive Families &#124; Fuller Youth Institute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christiansurvivors.com/cri/nacr/wordpress/?page_id=142#comment-6739</guid>
		<description>[...] 4(4), Oct 1974, 16-19. Also see The National Association for Christian Recovery&#8217;s web site:  http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-.... [&#8617;]This diagram adapted from Dale Ryan, Pastoral Care and Abuse. [&#8617;]Carmen Renee [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 4(4), Oct 1974, 16-19. Also see The National Association for Christian Recovery&#8217;s web site:  <a href="http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-..." rel="nofollow">http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-&#8230;</a>. [&#8617;]This diagram adapted from Dale Ryan, Pastoral Care and Abuse. [&#8617;]Carmen Renee [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-6361</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christiansurvivors.com/cri/nacr/wordpress/?page_id=142#comment-6361</guid>
		<description>As long as there is the teaching of eternal punishment, there will be spiritual abuse.  No matter how hard you try, you cannot put a happy face on a god who burns people forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as there is the teaching of eternal punishment, there will be spiritual abuse.  No matter how hard you try, you cannot put a happy face on a god who burns people forever.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-5959</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 15:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christiansurvivors.com/cri/nacr/wordpress/?page_id=142#comment-5959</guid>
		<description>This is a very helpful article and one I will spend some further time with. I do believe that it is impossible to think and experience God without some kind of imagery. For example, if we quickly pray some kind of &quot;help!&quot; prayer in a moment of need, then who do we envision is hearing us? Some kind of cloud or cosmic consciousness?

As I read all of this, I could not help but think of Jesus&#039; words, &quot;anyone who has seen me has seen the father&quot; (John 14:9). Perhaps that is the real scandal of the Christian proposition, that Jesus truly was the living image of the invisible God, the transcendent in immanent form, the unknowable in sandals.

As I personally seek healing for my distorted images of God, and they have been legion, it is with Jesus I find the possibilities of truth, not in goddess worship, convenient recasting of God in my own image, but in faith in the one who loves me and gives himself for me in the present moments of life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very helpful article and one I will spend some further time with. I do believe that it is impossible to think and experience God without some kind of imagery. For example, if we quickly pray some kind of &#8220;help!&#8221; prayer in a moment of need, then who do we envision is hearing us? Some kind of cloud or cosmic consciousness?</p>
<p>As I read all of this, I could not help but think of Jesus&#8217; words, &#8220;anyone who has seen me has seen the father&#8221; (John 14:9). Perhaps that is the real scandal of the Christian proposition, that Jesus truly was the living image of the invisible God, the transcendent in immanent form, the unknowable in sandals.</p>
<p>As I personally seek healing for my distorted images of God, and they have been legion, it is with Jesus I find the possibilities of truth, not in goddess worship, convenient recasting of God in my own image, but in faith in the one who loves me and gives himself for me in the present moments of life.</p>
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		<title>By: Connie</title>
		<link>http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-4451</link>
		<dc:creator>Connie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christiansurvivors.com/cri/nacr/wordpress/?page_id=142#comment-4451</guid>
		<description>Tim, you ask the impossible. We relate to God through images because that is, as humans created in the image of God, how we think. We define things. God Himself built that predilection into us. Jesus used images to describe and &quot;define&quot; His Father, and His Kingdom, to us. Do you think Jesus was wrong?

This article is about how our images of God become distorted by the failures of human parents and early caregivers. The fact that we create imagery related to terms like &quot;father&quot; is not in question. It&#039;s part and parcel of God&#039;s gift of language and symbol. The fact that we must overcome deeply ingrained negative connotations attached to certain words, words that may separate us unnecessarily from the real, holy God, is indisputable. 

Mankind is fallen. God is not. We need to learn to tell the difference, and articles like this one can be key to that effort. Thanks, Ms. Ryan!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, you ask the impossible. We relate to God through images because that is, as humans created in the image of God, how we think. We define things. God Himself built that predilection into us. Jesus used images to describe and &#8220;define&#8221; His Father, and His Kingdom, to us. Do you think Jesus was wrong?</p>
<p>This article is about how our images of God become distorted by the failures of human parents and early caregivers. The fact that we create imagery related to terms like &#8220;father&#8221; is not in question. It&#8217;s part and parcel of God&#8217;s gift of language and symbol. The fact that we must overcome deeply ingrained negative connotations attached to certain words, words that may separate us unnecessarily from the real, holy God, is indisputable. </p>
<p>Mankind is fallen. God is not. We need to learn to tell the difference, and articles like this one can be key to that effort. Thanks, Ms. Ryan!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-4144</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christiansurvivors.com/cri/nacr/wordpress/?page_id=142#comment-4144</guid>
		<description>I appreciated your insightful article but I do need to articulate a strong reservation about this entire approach.

I am the son of missionaries and ministers and spent much of my early life in an hyper evangelical/charismatic milieu.  Starting at age 15 I spent years in Jesus People communes, engaged in street evangelism and waited for the Second Coming.  I even spent time in the notorious Children of God cult.  Later, in the early 1970’s, I was a core member of one of the seminal charismatic churches and went on to attend a conservative Bible School.  I am no stranger to the best and worst of this tradition.

Eventually the doubts about it all – philosophical, metaphysical and moral - overwhelmed the strong conditioning and over a period of several years I made a slow but final break with this entire tradition and culture.  That was 30 years ago.  I went on to study philosophy, literature and comparative religions and seriously engaged in spiritual practices from diverse traditions around the world - from Buddhism to Sufism to Shamanism.  I also spent years in personal growth and healing therapies and workshops.  I was so so hungry for to learn and understand what was outside the bubble of Christian fundamentalism - all that had been labelled dark and demonic – and to find something authentic in myself.  My subsequent life has not always been easy but I have never, ever regretted claiming freedom from dogma and external authority.  I haven’t followed any particular spiritual tradition for many years preferring, I suppose, to cultivate a spirituality that arises from my own direct experience of life and truth.

I am only looking back now because I have recently reconnected with people from this early life - some who became Christians through my own witnessing.  Many of them are still Christians and some have gone on to become ministers and leaders in charismatic and vineyard churches. I am also writing extensively about that time as part of a larger autobiography and so have reacquainted myself with the curious mindset that I once accepted as unquestionably right.  I have also spent considerable time catching up on developments within this culture over the past 30 years.

While I see many positive developments within the church and, in some quarters, an overdue embrace of insights derived from depth psychology and sociology, that would have been unthinkable when I was in Bible School, I have to say that the whole exercise of &#039;reframing&#039; evangelical Christianity to reflect a more nuanced, holistic and restorative spirituality strikes me as fundamentally misguided and misleading.

It is fundamentally misguided and misleading because the premise, the foundation itself is the problem.  While it is certainly possible to selectively quote scripture to reinforce certain images of God - positive or negative - a commitment to seeing the Bible itself as a pure and comprehensive revelation of truth means that on has to take it all – the good the bad and the ugly.  They are all there.  You have selected passages that affirm the positive image of God that you wish to reinforce but there are any number of passages that support a much more horrifying vision of Yahweh.  The negative images of God you are trying so hard to counteract did not spring up out of thin air; they are found in the Bible itself and no amount of creative spin can remove them.  As long as the Bible is upheld as the inerrant Word of God – rather than a very human document that reflects the wide range of human experience aspiration and needs of the times - such images will endure.

My point is this.  Why relate to God in terms of images at all?  It is all to clear to me that all these images are mostly projections - all too human ones.  God is image only where the Ground, the Source of Being and Awareness, intersects with human perception - and the needs and demands of human culture and conditioning.

It is not enough simply to free oneself of negative images of God – one needs to be free of all images of God.  A focus on the positive will invariably be counter balanced with a re-energization of the negative.  It is the law of balance, of the dialectic between opposites.  Church history, indeed all of human history, is full of these pendulum swings.

Images of God – images of anything – are powerful and useful but need to be seen for what they are – relative, changing mirrors of the human psyche.  Christianity has capitalized on a certain set of images and elevated them to Absolute status – and proceeded to enforce them on others – by persuasion, example and even violence.

In my understanding the truest, most redemptive thing to do is to stop this attempt at defining God and, instead, humbly open to the fullness, the richness, the trueness of the Presence that can be found in every moment, in everyone and everything ‘for in This we live and move and have our Being’.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciated your insightful article but I do need to articulate a strong reservation about this entire approach.</p>
<p>I am the son of missionaries and ministers and spent much of my early life in an hyper evangelical/charismatic milieu.  Starting at age 15 I spent years in Jesus People communes, engaged in street evangelism and waited for the Second Coming.  I even spent time in the notorious Children of God cult.  Later, in the early 1970’s, I was a core member of one of the seminal charismatic churches and went on to attend a conservative Bible School.  I am no stranger to the best and worst of this tradition.</p>
<p>Eventually the doubts about it all – philosophical, metaphysical and moral &#8211; overwhelmed the strong conditioning and over a period of several years I made a slow but final break with this entire tradition and culture.  That was 30 years ago.  I went on to study philosophy, literature and comparative religions and seriously engaged in spiritual practices from diverse traditions around the world &#8211; from Buddhism to Sufism to Shamanism.  I also spent years in personal growth and healing therapies and workshops.  I was so so hungry for to learn and understand what was outside the bubble of Christian fundamentalism &#8211; all that had been labelled dark and demonic – and to find something authentic in myself.  My subsequent life has not always been easy but I have never, ever regretted claiming freedom from dogma and external authority.  I haven’t followed any particular spiritual tradition for many years preferring, I suppose, to cultivate a spirituality that arises from my own direct experience of life and truth.</p>
<p>I am only looking back now because I have recently reconnected with people from this early life &#8211; some who became Christians through my own witnessing.  Many of them are still Christians and some have gone on to become ministers and leaders in charismatic and vineyard churches. I am also writing extensively about that time as part of a larger autobiography and so have reacquainted myself with the curious mindset that I once accepted as unquestionably right.  I have also spent considerable time catching up on developments within this culture over the past 30 years.</p>
<p>While I see many positive developments within the church and, in some quarters, an overdue embrace of insights derived from depth psychology and sociology, that would have been unthinkable when I was in Bible School, I have to say that the whole exercise of &#8216;reframing&#8217; evangelical Christianity to reflect a more nuanced, holistic and restorative spirituality strikes me as fundamentally misguided and misleading.</p>
<p>It is fundamentally misguided and misleading because the premise, the foundation itself is the problem.  While it is certainly possible to selectively quote scripture to reinforce certain images of God &#8211; positive or negative &#8211; a commitment to seeing the Bible itself as a pure and comprehensive revelation of truth means that on has to take it all – the good the bad and the ugly.  They are all there.  You have selected passages that affirm the positive image of God that you wish to reinforce but there are any number of passages that support a much more horrifying vision of Yahweh.  The negative images of God you are trying so hard to counteract did not spring up out of thin air; they are found in the Bible itself and no amount of creative spin can remove them.  As long as the Bible is upheld as the inerrant Word of God – rather than a very human document that reflects the wide range of human experience aspiration and needs of the times &#8211; such images will endure.</p>
<p>My point is this.  Why relate to God in terms of images at all?  It is all to clear to me that all these images are mostly projections &#8211; all too human ones.  God is image only where the Ground, the Source of Being and Awareness, intersects with human perception &#8211; and the needs and demands of human culture and conditioning.</p>
<p>It is not enough simply to free oneself of negative images of God – one needs to be free of all images of God.  A focus on the positive will invariably be counter balanced with a re-energization of the negative.  It is the law of balance, of the dialectic between opposites.  Church history, indeed all of human history, is full of these pendulum swings.</p>
<p>Images of God – images of anything – are powerful and useful but need to be seen for what they are – relative, changing mirrors of the human psyche.  Christianity has capitalized on a certain set of images and elevated them to Absolute status – and proceeded to enforce them on others – by persuasion, example and even violence.</p>
<p>In my understanding the truest, most redemptive thing to do is to stop this attempt at defining God and, instead, humbly open to the fullness, the richness, the trueness of the Presence that can be found in every moment, in everyone and everything ‘for in This we live and move and have our Being’.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-3419</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christiansurvivors.com/cri/nacr/wordpress/?page_id=142#comment-3419</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this wonderful and insightful article.  I read it with great relief.  I have struggled for years with the guilt of not being able to &quot;trust God&quot;.  Now I understand part of the reason.   You have given a new measure of hope to me...bless you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this wonderful and insightful article.  I read it with great relief.  I have struggled for years with the guilt of not being able to &#8220;trust God&#8221;.  Now I understand part of the reason.   You have given a new measure of hope to me&#8230;bless you.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary-AnnEva Ingrao</title>
		<link>http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-3360</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary-AnnEva Ingrao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christiansurvivors.com/cri/nacr/wordpress/?page_id=142#comment-3360</guid>
		<description>Thank you. This is really beautiful. You have so beautifully presented something that has been sitting deep within me for a very long time. Thank you for the kind manner you approach this subject, and for the grace that carries it to my heart. Your words are a deep balm that is being spread out into all of my being: my thoughts, my emotions, my memories.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you. This is really beautiful. You have so beautifully presented something that has been sitting deep within me for a very long time. Thank you for the kind manner you approach this subject, and for the grace that carries it to my heart. Your words are a deep balm that is being spread out into all of my being: my thoughts, my emotions, my memories.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: eugene dee</title>
		<link>http://www.nacronline.com/spirituality/recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god-seeing-god-in-new-ways-recovery-from-distorted-images-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-1397</link>
		<dc:creator>eugene dee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christiansurvivors.com/cri/nacr/wordpress/?page_id=142#comment-1397</guid>
		<description>hi i know i have bad images of GOD too but i believe he judges as a righous judge but my mind saae him in a way thats a far away GOD who will punish me or is waiting to punish me, how can i see GOD the way he is meant to be seen to know him and love him is more blessed and rewarding and precious than anything in the world, in christ, eugene</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi i know i have bad images of GOD too but i believe he judges as a righous judge but my mind saae him in a way thats a far away GOD who will punish me or is waiting to punish me, how can i see GOD the way he is meant to be seen to know him and love him is more blessed and rewarding and precious than anything in the world, in christ, eugene</p>
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